Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hochsprung, 47
Madeleine Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Rousseau, 30
Mary Sherlach, 56
Victoria Soto,27
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6

The list of the victims (and their ages) from the Newtown, CT massacre has been released. Two names obviously absent from the list is Adam Lanza and his mother Nancy Lanza.

On Dec 14, 2012, in the early Friday morning Adam Lanza shot his mother Nancy in the head four times. He then drove his mother's car to Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT. At 9:30am he forcibly entered the school with two handguns (Glock 10mm and Sig 9mm), a semi-auto AR-15 (Bushmaster .223), and many 30-rnd magazines. In the car, he left a shotgun. All the guns were registered to his mother, who was an avid collector and semi-doomsday prepper. There, he rampaged two classrooms and began his execution-style massacre.

What a sad day for America. All too often such tragedies fall upon us and we all feel helpless to avoid them. What is this world coming to? How do we explain such horrific acts of violence to our children? How do we move forward...

I share a connection with Newtown, CT. I lived in Danbury, CT for 5 years. My oldest son was born in Danbury, CT. I have taken firearms classes with several instructors and law enforcement officers in Newtown, CT. It was a flip-of-a-coin decision whether to buy my house in Sandy Hook or New Milford. New Milford won the toss. I love Connecticut and plan on moving back there someday. So, it broke my heart to hear of this news and I am not ashamed to say that it drew a few tears.

This weekend, I took my boys up north and during the long drive we spoke about the events of Friday. I did my best to make them understand. In the end, it came down to saying, "Boys, you just can't stop crazies. Good people follow rules. Bad people break rules. Crazies, they cannot be reasoned with or talked down."

Tonight, my thoughts turned to gun control and the many reasons for it. No, I'm not advocating gun control. Yet, every time something happens that involve firearms I stop and reason with myself. I ask myself, "would tighter restriction prevented this act of violence?" In most cases, the answer is no. The crime would still have been committed. The criminals don't follow the law. If they wanted a gun, they would get one. Black market, theft, gun shows, they would have found a way to get one. Criminals don't follow laws. That's why they are called criminals. Crazies... well, unless they are known to be crazy (by court order) no one can really tell if they are or not until they do something that makes you shout, "Dude, you're crazy!"

However, the powers that be will want you to think otherwise. I heard President Obama's speech and it launched a shiver up my spine. At a press conference about the shooting, the president said, "We're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics."

Could this tragedy in Sandy Hook/Newtown, CT be the tipping point on the Gun Control debate? In 2012 alone we've had more mass gun violence than we've had in a long time.

The Washington Post has an interactive map that shows the craziness that has happened this year. See it here.

It may seem that gun violence has gone up considerably. The statistics show that violence has gone down. Since the sunset of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, many civilians have "armed up and stocked up" for fear that such a ban would come again. Most states have changed their views and have become quite liberal in the matters of firearms. CCWs are up, constitutional carry is widespread. Safety and education is on the rise. We like our guns and don't like the government sticking their noses in!

In 1992, for instance, the violent crime rate per 100,000 residents was 758. In 2012, it was 386. Between 2000 and 2009 (the latest year for which I could easily find data) use of firearms in violent crime had decreased from a rate of 2.4 per 1,000 to 1.4 per 1,000.

So gun violence overall is down significantly from where it was about 20 or more. At the same time, comfort with guns, which are present in about 45 percent of households, has been increasing. Gallup reports that in January of this year, only 25 percent of Americans wanted to see gun laws be made more strict. Two-thirds either wanted laws to stay the same or be less strict, while 8 percent had no opinion. (source)

It's like I told my boys, "you just can't stop crazies." This is the world we now live in.

So the looming question in my heart is... is there room for more gun control? How can we stop the crazies? I open the floor to your opinions and solutions.

Right now, I don't have any ideas. Just sadness. I am pursuing my CCW at Shooter's World in Jan 8th and 8th and I am looking at a smaller sized handgun for everyday carry. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a way to fix crazy. It would have helped if his mom had locked up the guns and hid the safe key but that is all hindsight.

part of the problem is the lack of health care for mentally ill people. Sure there are state run programs but they are very poorly ran. The last 3 major shootings all involved mentally ill people. I don't think requiring a mental health screening for gun purchase is a good answer either, I can see that being used and manipulated to disqualify almost everyone.

As for school safety, they should always have a police presence on campus. Thats how it was at my highschool, gradeschools should be the same. Also, why arent classroom doors always secured? They could be on a magnetic key swipe system, only faculty has keys. It wouldnt stop everyone but it would slow an attacker down, hopefully long enough for the cop stationed at the school to move to the threat.

I read a post where someone wanted to re-open the loony bins and just lock away mentally ill people because they "might" pose a threat to society. That is absolutely the wrong way to do things. You cant lock up people just because they are different. Again, it comes down to individual responsibility, the parents, friends and family need to own up to the chance their sibling, son, nephew etc could be dangerous, especially if they showed signs in the past. They need to get that person help, not just sweep it under the rug and ignore the problem

Another question I have is, if you are a parent, own guns and know your kid is mentally ill. Isn't it your responsibility to secure those firearms in a safe place? Doesn't look like that was done in this case.

Also, why arent classroom doors always secured? They could be on a magnetic key swipe system, only faculty has keys. It wouldnt stop everyone but it would slow an attacker down, hopefully long enough for the cop stationed at the school to move to the threat.

The only issue with this statement is kids do go to the bathroom during class so getting back into the classroom would create more of a disruption. I know this can easily be remedied. I just wanted to point it out.

I like what you are saying but the cost is outrageous for mentally ill. I don't know the answer but there has to be one that is economically sound.

For the school door issue: My Jr High and HS didnt have doors on any of the rooms in the main bldgs. They only rooms that had doors were the portable classrooms and shop class rooms.
We had a Mesa cop on campus at all times but that didnt stop me from getting out or into the school when I wanted. It also didnt stop my friends from drinking or smoking weed on school grounds.

The ONLY answer to solving tragedies like this is God. I read a story one time, and it asked the question "Why did God create evil?" Well, he didn't. Evil is the product you get when God is absent in your life, It's what takes over peoples heart when they don't know where else to turn but the world. I've been down that road, when all you focus on is yourself and the world it makes you sad, angry, and a miserable person. The government and the media is so sure that eliminating guns will solve the problems, but all that will do in my opinion is make people turn to creating home made bombs (more then they already do) and using chemical warfare made by products bought at Walmart. As a nation we have grown far to dependent on the government, and want spooned fed everything while being protected from other countries. We need to focus on protecting Americans from Americans, and the answer is not by taking our only means of personal protection away from us. We need to bring God back into the schools, we need to arm teachers, we need to promote CCW classes and firearm/crises training to everyone. Instead of the government spending billions on cleaning up some other countries mess, we should spend billions educating and training Americans.


Long story short, If this nation would go back to it's roots as a country and learn to pray and re-learn how to fend for themselves other then relying on somebody else all the time we could fix 95% of this countries problems. Americans are lazy, we complain about the illegals but they are the ones doing all the hard labor in this country making it a nicer place to live. How many of you want to pour concrete all day? Lay brick? build houses? I've been doing that since I was a kid, I grew up with it drivin into my head that if you wanted something, you work for it. I don't know how many of you have been on a construction site lately, but the amount of white people on them is pretty slim... All these young kids are going to college to get desk jobs because no one knows how to actually work. And desk jobs are needed, but without people doing the labor part of the job those desk jobs wouldn't exist.


A lot of typing and a lot of reading to say something I"m sure everyone here already knows and realizes, but whatever. That's my opinion. Find God, Pray, and arm yourself.

defibvt wrote:I don't believe there is a way to fix crazy. It would have helped if his mom had locked up the guns and hid the safe key but that is all hindsight.

Sir, you are 100% correct. It would appear that she was an avid shooter and involved him, too. Still, a wise investment would have been a combination gun safe. This would have prevented this tragedy, at least with firearms. I guess he could have googled "how to make pipe bombs", made up a bunch, lit them up and tossed them through the classroom windows. Crazy people... :(

Avis wrote:The ONLY answer to solving tragedies like this is God...

... Long story short, If this nation would go back to it's roots as a country and learn to pray and re-learn how to fend for themselves other then relying on somebody else all the time we could fix 95% of this countries problems.

... A lot of typing and a lot of reading to say something I"m sure everyone here already knows and realizes, but whatever. That's my opinion. Find God, Pray, and arm yourself.

Avis, thanks for being direct. Brother, you typed what I was thinking.

On the note of securing schools. I like the electronic keycard idea. If it can work for big business, it can work for schools. Every kid and adult that "should" be there, gets assigned an RFID card/wristband/lanyard. Swipe, and enter. No card, no entry. They should put these on all doors that lead into the schools and into separate buildings. In the event of a fire alarm the magnetic doors automatically unlock. The initial cost would be substantial but considering the cost of lives, it's a mute argument.

This would only stop non-students/non-faculty. Discreet metal detectors can help to eliminate the students/faculty that try to bring a gun to school. Sure, there are other ways to sneak stuff in, but the more barriers they put up, the safer the schools can become.

An armed security guard on campus is another option. Every classroom will get a panic button that automatically locks down the school and pages the armed security guard. He has access because of a keycard.

Just suggestions and open thoughts.

Most Jr. high and High schools all have a police officer on campus all the time, for the purpose of keeping the kids in line, not so much I think to protect them from crazies. But, with the way the world is going that is becoming an issue as well. Hence, why you don't find police officers on elementary school grounds... chances are, those kids aren't doing drugs/drinking.

The key-card is a good idea, due to OSHA regulations and most state regulations it could only be a one way deal.. meaning, you cannot have a door that locks from the inside not allowing people out their only exit. But all you need to do is keep people out, not in.

I'm seeing this argument pop up. A couple articles I found on the subject seem to support its historic validity there.


I guess there is a district in TX that is letting teachers carry.

Thoughts on either of these approaches?

It's not reasonable to directly indicate that BECAUSE they banned handguns, no one has shot up a school since.

I think teachers should carry, but only if they have gone through at minimum, a CCW class or equivalent

Well, that sucks. I'm surfing YouTube and an advertisement plays right before a video I wanted to watch. The video happen to be about disassembly of a hunting rifle. The add was from "Demand A Plan". http://www.demandaplan.org/

Per the web site, "A group of artists joined our effort to Demand A Plan and recorded a powerful, personal message. Please take a minute to watch the video and share it with your friends and family."

This is what they want and are asking people to Demand from their politician, to launch gun control.

1. Require a criminal background check for every gun sold in America
2. Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
3. Make gun trafficking a federal crime, including real penalties for “straw purchasers”

Demand that your members of Congress and the president support these legislative priorities.

This is where I'm on the fence with. I don't see a problem with items 1 or 3. Straw purchases/sales are already illegal firearm purchases, which can bring a felony conviction sentence of ten years in jail and a fine of up to $250,000. Requiring a NCIC background check, in my opinion, is a good thing. It helps keep the bad guys from buying guns and ruining it for us good guys.

Now, #2, I take offense to. By all legal definitions, an "assault weapon" is a fully-automatic weapon. An AR-15 is a semi-auto firearm. Just because it's roots comes from the Stoner designed M16, does NOT make it an assault weapon. This also goes for any semi-auto version of it's full-auto heritage.

High cap mags? Do you know how fast I can change a magazine on a handgun or a rifle? I'm like greased lighting!

Here's Jerry Miculik. He's shooting a 22LR revolver. He shoots it faster than an AR and reloads faster than one, too!



I wonder if they'll start calling his S&W revolver an Assault Weapon. Stupid mindless robots...

Ok, this needs to be seen.

http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=2E10716E6FD870ADECD5461A6778F3AB

The bottom line is, the AR15 apparently was left inside the car. The Shotgun (Siaga-12) was in the trunk. There were 4 handguns inside the school.

2ndchance wrote:Ok, this needs to be seen.

http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=2E10716E6FD870ADECD5461A6778F3AB

The bottom line is, the AR15 apparently was left inside the car. The Shotgun (Siaga-12) was in the trunk. There were 4 handguns inside the school.

Woah, that's big. Not hearing much about that in the news...

http://www.kgw.com/home/Linn-Co-​sheriff-letter-to-VP-Biden-backs-​gun-rights-187046251.html