I guess it's RED SHIRT time again............. this notice just came out and hard copy back up info show almost ALL 4x4 trails will be closed in Tonto. GLOBE DISTRICT looks to be the worst!!!! Most of the rest of F/S trails in the state are going to a trail system from 1988 (RATM)........... this is NOT ACCEPTABLE. We MUST attend at least one of the public meetings listed below to fight for our RIGHTS. F/S say: OHV is an acceptable use of F/S lands........... closing trails to the limit of use from over 20 years ago will not work. The next thing we'll hear is: "too much damage...... must close".

OHV have spent thousands on Arizona trail inventory (although F/S did not accept much) and our enthusiasts have spent many hours helping GPS their favorate trails.............. for what? To get them closed! DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN. FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS.

Globe seems to be hit the hardest as many trails from Jamboree are in this area............ Montana Mountain and surrounding trails, Powerline, top of H2H, Ajax Loop, and several near/around the ASARCO mine property. I have the inventory maps that reflect all of the existing trails south of Hwy 60 connecting with FJ trails if anyone wants them. I'm going to try and make it to Globe but will for sure make it to Mesa. PLEASE make time to attend at least one of these meetings............. Do YOUR SHARE to protect our trails.


The Tonto National Forest, located in central Arizona, is proposing changes to their motorized vehicle travel system. During the month of November, six public open houses are scheduled to explain the process used to review the current route system, the criteria for determining needs for change, and to discuss any issues people may have with the proposed changes. Dates, times, and locations of the open houses are shown below
The Forest Service is seeking input from the public on these proposed changes before making a final determination on the designated route system. The public is invited to come and share their ideas about the forest's system of roads, trails, and/or areas, review the proposed system, and submit comments about the proposal.
A copy of the Forest Travel Management Proposed Action can be found on the Forest website at http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/travelmgt/index.shtml . You may also get a copy by visiting the Supervisor's Office at 2324 E. McDowell Rd., Phoenix, Arizona, or at one of the district offices.
Open House Schedule
Wednesday, November 4, 2009 6:30-8:00 pm
Tonto Basin Elementary School
445 South Old Hwy 188, (Punkin Center)
Tonto Basin, AZ
Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:00-7:30 pm
Old High School Auditorium
401 High Street
Globe, AZ
Monday, November 9, 2009 6:30-8:00 pm
Black Mountain Elementary School
33606 N. 60th Street
Scottsdale, AZ
Thursday, November 11, 2009 6:00-7:30 pm
Pleasant Valley Community Center
47533 Hwy 288
Young, AZ
Tuesday, November 17, 2009 7:00-8:30pm
Broadway Recreation Center
59 E Broadway Rd
Mesa, AZ
Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:00-7:30pm
Julia Randall Elementary School
601 S Greenway Parkway
Payson, AZ
Written comments regarding this proposed action may be submitted through December 4, 2009. Comments should be mailed to Travel Management Team Leader, Tonto National Forest, 2324 E McDowell Rd, Phoenix AZ, 85006.
For more information, contact Genevieve Johnson at 602-225-5213, or visit the Tonto National Forest webpage at www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto .
JUST REMEMBER, PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT IS CRUCIAL TO KEEP RECREATION AREAS OPEN; PLEASE GET INVOLVED!

1) Forest Service is regulated by the Secretary of Agriculture..... NOT as BLM is regulated by the Secretary of Interior. Both have "similar" regulations/rules regarding managing their identified portions of "Public Lands". Our individual state legislators/laws have NOTHING to do with these laws.
2) Although both FS and BLM admit "OHV recreation is an acceptable use of public lands" they are still regulated and mandated to MANAGE THE LANDS FOR ALL USES.
3) The FS Transportation Rule came out a couple of years ago and it truly sent FS up-side-down. FS, more so than BLM, have spent years "DOING THEIR OWN THING" but just the same as BLM, they ignored the increasing use by OHV's. No one knows if it was a result of "not knowing what to do" or "whether it was due to lack of personnel" to do the work involved. Neither ever considered "PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE USERS"..... whether motorized or non-motorized. They have always felt there was "conflict between the user groups so they ignored it". Some still believe that even though we've been successful in bringing both motorized and non-motorized groups to the table.
4) On to the issue re Tonto lands: In the middle 90's shortly after legislation stole the first million from the OHV Gas Tax Funds a group of land managers and OHV enthusiasts put together a plan to get the grant dollars out immediately so it would be harder for legislators to take it.................. fund route inventory across the state. The Florence Junction area was the first......... Most of this area is BLM and State Trust but it also included the south portion of the Globe District of Tonto FS. All existing trails were inventoried and then went through the evaluation process which consisted of many hours of sitting at the table with representatives from ALL user groups as well as land managers. These people were separated into three groups and all three groups evaluated every mile of the inventoried trails. This process took approx 5 years from beginning to end. Tonto districts Globe, Cave Creek and parts of Mesa were professionally inventoried and evaluated in this process. Then all of a sudden FS backed off and did not accept the "Decision Tree" process, deciding each district would do their own thing. WE YELLED LOUD AND WIDE that this was not acceptable. At that time NOHVCC stepped in and offered to conduct seminars across the country to show how land managers and OHV could partner to work together. FS accepted this and Arizona was the first to host this seminar. Phoenix was first and then another was hosted within the Apache-Sitgreaves FS. Sounded like PARTNERSHIPS were the way to go and would work. FS asked us to step up to the table and help them GPS all our trails. THIS WAS DONE. Then the next thing we hear is they are going back to the RATM Trail System of 1988 as a BASE start. BS. This will NOT work. They seem to not even be considering our work or info on existing trails. Soooooooooooooo...........
5) These meetings are not telling us "this is the way it is". They are PROPOSING a trail system that, although not sufficient for 2009, is NOT necessarily set in stone. We HAVE THE RIGHT TO COMMENT. That is what the meetings are for. If the "final report" is not to our liking we can appeal............ although, in my opinion is worthless because appeals go to appealite courts within the agency. Not our state legal process. Part of our problem is our own fault..... our people just want to PLAY. When we call for letters we get less than 100; when we need RED SHIRTS at these meetings, we normally get less than 50. AND, I hate to admit it, but the ATV world are the worst about getting involved and they are our worst enemy also. Sometimes I get really annoyed in fighting for those that don't seem to care but the other side of the coin is......... if they lose, SO DO WE!.
6) A few of the issues we all need to pound......... POLITELY are:
a) How do they feel trails from 20 years ago will suffice the amount of traffic of today.
b) Did they even consider or review the GPS or trail designations from us?
c) Ask to see the EA's re the closures.
d) Did our "partnership" mean anything?
e) If this proposal is only a BASE system/map, what's the process to add our existing trails to the system?

I'm told each meeting will have tables representing each FS District so you can address each one separately regarding specific trails. Just SHOWING is not going to help us at this point........... you MUST MAKE COMMENTS. I don't know if they will record comments or if we'll all have to send them in separately following the meetings but we certainly need more than 100 comments to come out somewhat ahead in this.

Okay received some more information on this today.

One of the biggest things we need in your comments at these meetings is to ask for a 60 day extension on the comment period. This is in part because of the limited timeframe they gave us to actually comment on the ENTIRE forest plan and also due to the maps they are using. They disregarded maps that were previously used and the new ones are such bad resolution and in such poor shape that you can't get within about 10 acres of an actual trail. So it's taking more time to put all of the trails that we know about on the maps themselves for the forest service.

Also folks and this is MUCHO important. If you wheel on this forest we need to know what trails you use. I'm talking about specifics, not just that you wheel. We need GPS track logs, actual trail locations. Hell even if you cut out part of the map and draw the trail you are talking about we need to know. Even if you know it's by forest road ???? let us know. I'm going to get the maps with the trails we know about up here probably tonight. This is the whole forest plan we have to look at instead of just say the Mesa, Cavecreek, or Globe districts separately. So any wheeling you do in this forest, help us out and let us know specifics about where and what.